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Post by marktyzack on Jan 9, 2014 22:08:40 GMT
When I learnt to ride trials (more than 10 years ago) I learnt the stop allowed rules.
Every time I've ridden a no stop I think I've had a good ride, but because I've learnt stop allowed I use the clutch and end up with a 5 on most sections.
Some of you reading this will probably say, learn not to stop, unfortunately I'm to old to bother.
My first point is this, I have just watched the film clip of the welsh experts and almost every rider stops in the section, which might mean that the sections are to hard.
Second point, its well known that the standard of riding is a lot lower in wales and know all the skills associated with stop allowed are going to be lost.
When me and Marcus went to our first trial menu years ago we saw a load of fat blokes riding what looked like cool looking bikes, Then one rider stood out from the rest (Garry Jenkins) he was doing what he did best hopping and bouncing around, that was the point that we decided to buy a trials bike.
So from now on new people coming into the sport will have to be impressed by someone who keeps two wheels on the ground. (big shame)
You are probably thinking that if I felt like this I should have gone to the trials forums, well It just so happens that I have been on many occasions, at least five years ago I proposed that A grade trials should include a harder than the B grade novice/sportsman root and that B grade trials should have a expert root which is a bit easier than the normal A grade, I was told at the forum that you cannot have a hard and easy novice/sportsman roots and B grade expert the same, some clubs even said that they would never run three roots, Im not going to say I was slated for my proposal, but.
Its funny that someone has just proposed almost the same thing for this year, and yes I think its a small step in the right direction, apart from experts will only ride 9 trials (old type A grade) and the no stop + don't know how the clubman is going to work on the new easy trials (Old B grade) Please note this is not meant to upset anyone its only meant to get people thinking.
Mark Tyzack
PS. If I ride trials this year I will be riding Stop Allowed.
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Post by sootysweep on Jan 10, 2014 7:43:38 GMT
Mark Please check your facts on Welsh riders. Trev.
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jan 11, 2014 10:17:25 GMT
Mark - I think WSW was one of the last centre to change to No-stop so not sure where you will be riding this year. As a centre we have listened to what has been asked for and this is why we have gone with changes for 2014. This has been done via many club and centre meetings to try and involve as many people as possible. It would be good if we all got behind the changes in 2014 to see how it goes rather than having a whinge before the first trial has even been run.
PS -no stop does not stop hopping, jumping and all the tricks - you just have to be a bit better to be able to do it on the move.
PPS -there was nothing worse with stop allowed rules than watching somebody stationery for minutes on end or rolling backwards with their foot down and only been given a 1 when the next rider has a good clean ride and only benefits by 1 mark.
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jan 11, 2014 10:46:06 GMT
"My first point is this, I have just watched the film clip of the welsh experts and almost every rider stops in the section, which might mean that the sections are to hard." -Mark Just watched above video - Majority of riders have good flowing rides. Think I have counted maybe 1 or possibly 2 stops out of the 5 or 6 fives shown on the video that did not involve a crash or going backwards and they would of been fives in the old rules. PS Are you so pro stop allowed so you are able to fix your bikes mid section.  ?? Sorry Mark couldn't resist that one! PPS Fair play to Marcus for some of his rides in the Presidents shield on the GasGas Random/trail bike thing. |
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Post by willis on Jan 11, 2014 19:55:26 GMT
I will back mark on this one,i feel no stop is a backwards move,the sections these days I find are boaring noting to get your teeth into,the were deffantly a lot harder ten years ago,
yes watching someone on stop in the same postion for 5 mins when you are in a que can wind you up,but why don't we just put a time limit on every section,it works indoors you don't see them hanging around,problem solved if you ask me
stop allowed with a time limit on each section,a lot more exciting
as we all know its not going to happen,so I got to just get on with it,but why cant we have consistent sections,havnt ridden many trials last year but the ones I did,i found 3 or 4 sections out of 10 were perfect,dificault but not dangous,yet the other 6 or 7 were very easy that over 90% of entry clean,what is the point of that,might aswell just run 3 sections.come on lads lets have good value for money trials where all the section are very much the same in difficaulty.it is trials after all.
the going inbtween the sections are harder that half the sections.
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jan 11, 2014 21:11:38 GMT
Willis.
I'd love to ride hard trials every day of the week but the consensus is to not too difficult please.
The trials you talk about have been stop allowed as the rules have not effected section severity yet as we have not gone to no stop yet in this centre. First trial of 2014 will be the first no stop centre trial in WSW for a few years. (except welsh federation run events)
Timing every section requires 2 people/per section. We struggle to get enough observers to run the trial itself. plus the expense of clocks etc I know we because we had to organise all that extra admin for the St David British champ.
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Post by willis7864 on Jan 12, 2014 18:17:21 GMT
Willis. I'd love to ride hard trials every day of the week but the consensus is to not too difficult please. The trials you talk about have been stop allowed as the rules have not effected section severity yet as we have not gone to no stop yet in this centre. First trial of 2014 will be the first no stop centre trial in WSW for a few years. (except welsh federation run events) Timing every section requires 2 people/per section. We struggle to get enough observers to run the trial itself. plus the expense of clocks etc I know we because we had to organise all that extra admin for the St David British champ. |
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Post by turbodean on Jan 16, 2014 19:30:51 GMT
At sportsman and even clubman level I don't think it really matters that much if ur allowed to stop or not, but at expert level I think most riders would prefer to be able to stop and doing so means sections can be made tighter and harder.
Personally I think stop allowed is better than no stop. I like watching the good riders hop the bike about setting themselves up for big steps/climbs etc.
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Post by sootysweep on Jan 18, 2014 7:30:47 GMT
NO STOP Q, what is the guideline for observers ? when front wheel stops forward motion do they count 1,2 or 3 seconds then give 5 ?? |
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Post by mark tyzack on Jan 18, 2014 17:07:25 GMT
As I understand it a stop is if the front spindle stops turning, there is no 1, 2, or 3 seconds, the moment the spindle stops its a 5 which is why I said the after watching the welsh experts film most people five'ed the sections.
We talked about this in club (up the Cimla every Monday night pub next to CK) if you give a rider a second or two, he or she will argue that was not 1 or 2 seconds and will result in more problems for the observer.
The way I will be observing will be this- split second stop = five.
Ps how about this one for the people who voted for no stop, as we know the sport is about maintaning forward motion, so why is it we have gone backwards in our sport about 15 years to no stop.
Thats a 5 from me.
Thanks for reading tell me if I'm wrong or right.
Mark Tyzack
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Post by Rob. on Jan 19, 2014 16:41:39 GMT
ACU handbook, a failure is considered to have occured if: The machine ceases to move in a forward direction.
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ty
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Post by ty on Jan 20, 2014 19:04:26 GMT
If the big boys who ride world champ round have adjusted so should the clubs ,
,lets be honest most club trials don't need to stop and bounce around and act like pro riders most are just straight forward bike and throttle control ,And remember trials back in the day was no stop ,
And been to a few stop allowed trials lately and never seen a rider stop and bounce around just constant control over the bike and did need to stop ,
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jan 20, 2014 21:28:55 GMT
If the big boys who ride world champ round have adjusted so should the clubs , ,lets be honest most club trials don't need to stop and bounce around and act like pro riders most are just straight forward bike and throttle control ,And remember trials back in the day was no stop , And been to a few stop allowed trials lately and never seen a rider stop and bounce around just constant control over the bike and did need to stop , Spot on - stop allowed has hidden a magnitude of skills at lower levels by allowing riders to stop and even go backward without penalty. At the very top the best are so good at stopping, hopping and realigning themselves that unless you make then fall off your are unlikely to take marks off them. Hence the change in direction to hopefully improve basic skills at the bottom end and minimise the danger at the very top. But what do I know - I only help coach those t all levels that want to learn, ride as best I can at various levels and set out the sections for the British championship boys.
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Post by willis7864 on Jan 21, 2014 9:15:18 GMT
I think What tyzask is trying to say is.if we go no stop.which we have then lets make sure it get observed probly. As whats happening is the obersever knows tge guy and hes had a good ride to the point where he comess to a stop. And gives tbe guy 2 or 3 sec then the rider moves on.gives a clean.what a joke.soon as the wheel stops for a split sec its a 5.but thats not happening.ive seen it myself.even seen as well known rider come to a stop on a step go back a foot.then clean tbe step and rest of secton and get a clean.so im with tyzak on this no stop is a joke.
Jimmy you wrong about me riding stop allowed all year last year.i i only rode two or three welsh champs and as far as I know was no stop.or sorry I did ride the president shield. Stop allowed
Im not happy about no stop but theres nothing I can do just get on with it.but lets have sections that you can get your teeth into.i was riding harder and better sctions on a old fantic many moons ago.three sections a lap are bang on .yet the other seven you could drive a transit van around them.why is this.lets have all sections same difficultly. Standard of trials in wales has deffantly gone backwardswhen youngstars or even old guys ride over tbe bridge they are having a big shock.shame as we have some great clubs with great venues and great riders n wales.lets work together and get some of tbe best trials back in wales
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Post by turbodean on Jan 21, 2014 13:48:38 GMT
Ive watched some world round vids on youtube from last year and to me it looks like even the top boys still stop forward motion for short periods and still get cleans.
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?? Sorry Mark couldn't resist that one!